Jason
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 22:26:11 GMT -5
In both cases, 90% of the time you do the job asked of you, no thought to it. Fair catches/pop flies, kickoffs/groundouts. That 10% of the time someone fucks up, it can result in game-changing plays. But it's still not as valuable as the other two phases. I wonder why the hitters (which is just far and away so damn important becuz lolwhoneedsdefense?) are only doing the job asked of them 25% of the time. Your argument is goofy. Defense is every bit as important as offense in baseball.
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Headhunter
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 22:41:56 GMT -5
It's the third phase of the game, and hitting and pitching are both far more critical to team building. Pitching is defense, dingus. Stop being obtuse.
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 22:48:52 GMT -5
In both cases, 90% of the time you do the job asked of you, no thought to it. Fair catches/pop flies, kickoffs/groundouts. That 10% of the time someone fucks up, it can result in game-changing plays. But it's still not as valuable as the other two phases. I wonder why the hitters (which is just far and away so damn important becuz lolwhoneedsdefense?) are only doing the job asked of them 25% of the time. Your argument is goofy. Defense is every bit as important as offense in baseball. Just repeating that assertion doesn't change how teams value it in reality though. Kinda like WAR, you can wish it away but all 30 teams are on board so you're arguing just to argue. If you had an argument worth a damn, you wouldn't have to continually present my views dishonestly either, considering I never said defense wasn't very important. Always exaggerate/blatantly make up my responses when you have no case, that's a good strategy.
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Headhunter
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 22:52:43 GMT -5
The way you think I'm disrespecting fielding makes me think you're not showing enough respect to the importance of special teams in football, really.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 22:56:17 GMT -5
I wonder why the hitters (which is just far and away so damn important becuz lolwhoneedsdefense?) are only doing the job asked of them 25% of the time. Your argument is goofy. Defense is every bit as important as offense in baseball. Just repeating that assertion doesn't change how teams value it in reality though. Kinda like WAR, you can wish it away but all 30 teams are on board so you're arguing just to argue. If you had an argument worth a damn, you wouldn't have to continually present my views dishonestly either, considering I never said defense wasn't very important. Always exaggerate/blatantly make up my responses when you have no case, that's a good strategy. WAR is literally "what if". Who cares?
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 22:56:51 GMT -5
The way you think I'm disrespecting fielding makes me think you're not showing enough respect to the importance of special teams in football, really. Because I think a full baseball defense is more important? Ok.
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 22:57:16 GMT -5
Just repeating that assertion doesn't change how teams value it in reality though. Kinda like WAR, you can wish it away but all 30 teams are on board so you're arguing just to argue. If you had an argument worth a damn, you wouldn't have to continually present my views dishonestly either, considering I never said defense wasn't very important. Always exaggerate/blatantly make up my responses when you have no case, that's a good strategy. WAR is literally "what if". Who cares? Literally every team, and a lot.
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:01:44 GMT -5
The way you think I'm disrespecting fielding makes me think you're not showing enough respect to the importance of special teams in football, really. Because I think a full baseball defense is more important? Ok. It might matter a tiny bit more, but most of the time it really doesn't. You're romanticizing the skill of the game too much, missing the big picture. Overthinking it big time. Hitting and pitching are 80%+ of the equation. And teams will have faaaaaar more tolerance for a bad fielder than a bad hitter, appropriately.
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 23:05:49 GMT -5
WAR is literally "what if". Who cares? Literally every team, and a lot. You are literally high if you think teams put in their stock on a what-if scenario. Retarded stat.
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 23:08:39 GMT -5
Because I think a full baseball defense is more important? Ok. It might matter a tiny bit more, but most of the time it really doesn't. You're romanticizing the skill of the game too much, missing the big picture. Overthinking it big time. Hitting and pitching are 80%+ of the equation. And teams will have faaaaaar more tolerance for a bad fielder than a bad hitter, appropriately. Again, pitching is defense. So according to you, hitting/pitching = 80%. I'm assuming 40/40? So the other 20% would be the rest of the defense, right? So you're saying 60/40 in favor of defense?
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:09:22 GMT -5
Literally every team, and a lot. You are literally high if you think teams put in their stock on a what-if scenario. Retarded stat. Every single team uses WAR to evaluate players. That's a fact. You're better off moving on to another argument, because you won't win this one. Every front office uses sabermetrics. You hate numbers, I get it. We all like to think we know everything just by watching. But they're useful and teams know that, get over it.
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:10:08 GMT -5
It might matter a tiny bit more, but most of the time it really doesn't. You're romanticizing the skill of the game too much, missing the big picture. Overthinking it big time. Hitting and pitching are 80%+ of the equation. And teams will have faaaaaar more tolerance for a bad fielder than a bad hitter, appropriately. Again, pitching is defense. So according to you, hitting/pitching = 80%. I'm assuming 40/40? So the other 20% would be the rest of the defense, right? So you're saying 60/40 in favor of defense? Hitting slightly more valuable than pitching, however you want to work those numbers.
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Headhunter
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:12:42 GMT -5
By the way, the markets for free agent are often set by WAR value parameters. Yup, it's even used in negotiations.
"Fake news!"
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:20:15 GMT -5
Apparently the Rockies have used their own variation of the dreaded WAR since 2014. You should let them know it's a bad stat so they can save a ton of money.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 23:28:23 GMT -5
You are literally high if you think teams put in their stock on a what-if scenario. Retarded stat. Every single team uses WAR to evaluate players. That's a fact. You're better off moving on to another argument, because you won't win this one. Every front office uses sabermetrics. You hate numbers, I get it. We all like to think we know everything just by watching. But they're useful and teams know that, get over it. I love numbers. When they apply. This doesn't even qualify as numbers. You gonna put together a bunch of numbers and make a what-if scenario and expect a team to put their stock in it? No. You can say they "look at it" all you want. It is by far the most meaningless stat in all of baseball. By far. Not even close. For batting stats, teams put their stock in batting averages and RBIs, with attention to on-base percentages, stolen bases strike outs and slugging, and maybe they'll read a WAR or OPS and think "Oh, that's cute". That's it. WAR is garbage.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 23:29:38 GMT -5
Again, pitching is defense. So according to you, hitting/pitching = 80%. I'm assuming 40/40? So the other 20% would be the rest of the defense, right? So you're saying 60/40 in favor of defense? Hitting slightly more valuable than pitching, however you want to work those numbers. They're fuckin' your numbers.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Apr 18, 2017 23:35:48 GMT -5
By the way, the markets for free agent are often set by WAR value parameters. Yup, it's even used in negotiations. "Fake news!" "Look, broski. We wanna sign you. You're batting .320 in your five-year career, you've led the league in RBIs three years in a row, you're an all-star gold-glover, no doubt about it. But your war is only 0.9, bro. So we gotta drive that price down, you feel me?" I'd love to be a fly on the wall during those negotiations.
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:50:12 GMT -5
By the way, the markets for free agent are often set by WAR value parameters. Yup, it's even used in negotiations. "Fake news!" "Look, broski. We wanna sign you. You're batting .320 in your five-year career, you've led the league in RBIs three years in a row, you're an all-star gold-glover, no doubt about it. But your war is only 0.9, bro. So we gotta drive that price down, you feel me?" I'd love to be a fly on the wall during those negotiations. Mock but by all means don't learn.
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Headhunter
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:54:13 GMT -5
Every single team uses WAR to evaluate players. That's a fact. You're better off moving on to another argument, because you won't win this one. Every front office uses sabermetrics. You hate numbers, I get it. We all like to think we know everything just by watching. But they're useful and teams know that, get over it. I love numbers. When they apply. This doesn't even qualify as numbers. You gonna put together a bunch of numbers and make a what-if scenario and expect a team to put their stock in it? No. You can say they "look at it" all you want. It is by far the most meaningless stat in all of baseball. By far. Not even close. For batting stats, teams put their stock in batting averages and RBIs, with attention to on-base percentages, stolen bases strike outs and slugging, and maybe they'll read a WAR or OPS and think "Oh, that's cute". That's it. WAR is garbage. Dude, you're not the one who's deciding whether they look at it or not. They already do. It isn't up to you. Why do you think you arguing with me online will result in teams with eatablished analytical departments who use WAR in their evaluations to not exist? That is not how life works. You're literally just covering your ears and yelling "Lalalalalalala" here. You're 100% wrong but committed to doubling down every time. It's unreal.
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Post by Headhunter on Apr 18, 2017 23:55:32 GMT -5
Batting average and RBIs, holy shit... The 1950s called, it wants its cutting edge baseball analysis back.
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